Mary Troy (MFA University of Arkansas) is the author of three short story collections:
Cookie Lily, 2004,
The Alibi Cafe and other stories, 2003, and the collection
Joe Baker is Dead, 1998, which was nominated for a PEN/Faulkner award. She has published stories widely in
The Greensboro Review,
Sou'wester,
The American Literary Review,
Boulevard, the
Chicago Tribune, and other journals. Her essays have appeared in anthologies and newspapers. She won a Nelson Algren award, and had thrice been nominated for Pushcart Prizes.
Mostly, though, Mary Troy is a wonderful writer, a thoughtful reader and one of the best teachers I've ever had. Memory of her voice has inspired me to keep at it, through the years. She is the director of the
MFA program at the
University of Missouri -- St. Louis. Mary was kind enough to grant the following interview to
Writing the Good Read.
Writing the Good Read: The other night, I met
a 23 year-old guy who had just graduated from college with degrees in Art and English. He is at a complete loss for next steps. He wouldn't know his dream job if it fell in his lap (which, of course, is unlikely). He's considering an MFA program. What advice do you offer for graduates in his shoes? Should he, and others, work and gain some life experience before entering an MFA program?
Mary Troy: There are a number of ways I could answer your questions. I’ll start with the young man at a complete loss. That is no reason to enter an MFA Program or indeed to begin writing. Creative writing takes discipline and dedication, is hard work, is in fact not a hobby but a calling, a vocation. Sure anyone can tinker with it, piddle about, but few of those dilettantes make it. Writing is hard, and the harder it is for the writer, the easier it is for the reader. So I do not suggest anyone give up the large chunk of life it takes to become a writer just because nothing seems good or interesting or the “dream job” does not appear. On the other hand, no one knows if he will be willing to go the distance if he does not at least start, and if your friend has not taken at least a few workshops, I suggest he do so. I am not suggesting the large undertaking of an MFA program—which he would not likely get into right away anyway—but some undergrad classes, some writing groups that meet in bookstores and libraries, or some kind of combination of those. You do not know what you can do until you at least start. Now about the MFA, it is the PhD equivalent for the creative writer, and that means it is the appropriate and most desirable degree for teaching creative writing in a university. It is not the same as a Master’s, though community colleges and some small and tradition bound colleges see it as the same. It is also only as good as the publications which accompany it, so having an MFA degree and one published book can get you a job in a university, depending on the competition of course. Since there are lots of writers looking for work, the competition may have two or three books, and your one does not look so good. Without a book, the MFA will not find work teaching in a university, except as an adjunct of course. So the MFA is not a sure-fire path to a job or a career. The best way to look at the degree is as a short-cut to better writing, to good literary creations, and thus to publication, and a by-product of it could be a good job.
Also, about the life experience part of your question: yes, life experience is necessary.
Flannery O’Connor said anyone who has survived childhood has enough to write about, but that is if the writer is wise enough to know it, to use his imagination and has gained some insights from all we go through in childhood. It does not mean we write about our childhoods. It means we understand rejection and cruelty and loneliness and desire and love and guilt and all the rest that makes us human. That said, stories and novels must be authentic, so one cannot write a story set in Baghdad without knowing anything more about Iraq that what is on the news. Flannery O’Connor was good in her chosen setting, Mississippi, one she understood intuitively, but would not have been able to write a novel set in Italy during WWII, no matter how good her imagination. One of the best new books of last year was
Whiteman by Tony D’Souza, and it is set in the Ivory Coast, just before the last violent revolution. Tony was raised in Chicago and lived much of his life in Miami, but he could write with authenticity about the Ivory Coast because he lived there in the Peace Corps. In fact, many writers have taken their experiences in the Peace Corps and used it in novels. Sure there are other ways to get experience—working as a grocery clerk is experience, too, but the book set in Safeway may not be as fascinating as one set in a village in the Ivory Coast. Then again, the writing and the insights will make the book finally, not the subject matter or the setting. All this to say yes, it is important to do things, to travel, to find out, to think, to research, to investigate. You need insights, talent, and material.
WTGR: When you were my teacher, and I was a young, naive student, I remember asking what steps I should take to become a writer. You said, "Just write." For me, that has not been a problem. Writing has been a daily part of my life for a very long time. I have, thankfully, never been plagued with any kind of writer's block. For those who do get stuck staring at the keyboard or the page, what techniques or sources of inspiration do you use, or teach students to use, to move past the block?
MT: I have never had writers’ block, but I believe it is either a failure of imagination or a fear of not being good enough. If it is a failure of imagination, you are probably not destined to be a writer. If it is what it almost always is, though, fear of not being good enough, the answer to that is simple. You are right. You are not good enough. None of us are. If we ever think we are, we fall into apathy or write boring, formulaic works. We need to get better, and we can only do that by writing. Sure, what you write may be horrid now (though likely not as horrid as you think) but blessedly no one but you need see it. if you write something terrible, read it, throw it away, delete it. Then write something better. Writing is the cure for this block, that and remembering that no one but you need ever see anything you do not think is good enough. And even then, you know that the next piece will be better, and the next one better still. Even if this is not true—sometimes we get worse as we try to improve and even that is a good sign—you want to tell yourself it is. Writing is an art that gets better with practice, and will continue to improve forever. You may have to be 85 before you write that one masterpiece, but you will have been working on it for 20, 30, 40 or more years, producing many good works along the way. So the answer is the same—just write. Just try. Keep trying. Do not expect brilliance. And of course, reading is a great way to learn to write, and a wonderful motivator. As always, reading good stories makes me want to write that much more. Read the classics as well as what is in the literary journals right now. Read it all. Try not to read formulaic trash, but read more literature. It is inspiring. You do not read to copy or to imitate, though that is OK, but more to remind you of the joy in reading to reinforce why you do this, to become excited by language enough to want to try your own style.
WTGR: What notable graduates of the UMSL MFA program should we be seeking on bookstore shelves?
MT: Our program is only eight years old, and most of our students go part time, take four or so years to finish, so there are not many books out just yet. But Eric Robinson published a novel,
Skip Macalester, just this past summer. John Ryan has a chapbook out, as does Colleen McKee (both of them are poets.) One of our graduates, Linda Wendling, has an agent for her wonderful novel, and three very recent grads have such marvelous theses that we expect them to be published very soon. They are Michael Nye, Kendra Hayden, and Reggie Poche, all fiction writers.
WTGR: When do you write? Please share a bit about your personal writing process, and what you're working on now. Do you have another book coming out?
MT: I write better in early in the day. As my life changes and I have more demands on me from the MFA program, I find I write only three days a week during the school year, and every day on my time off. I try to write from 8am to about 3pm on the days I can. I often read something before I begin, and that is often poetry, usually a Shakespeare sonnet. If I am at that place in the story where I cannot think of anything else anyway, I will not read first.
What I am working on now is another collection of short stories, my true love. I have 3 stories for the book already finished, will hope to finish 4 or 5 more in this calendar year. That could be nearly enough for a book. I am also working on a novel, that will take many many years and will always take second place to my stories.
I have no new book coming out now. My 3rd one was out two years ago, and is still winning awards—the
Devil’s Kitchen Reading Award was the last one, about nine months ago.
WTGR: What do you think of writing groups, workshops and other small, non-degree-related programs designed to help writers help themselves?
MT: They are very good for those who are not sure if they want to be writers, and also good for those who do want to be writers, are indeed writers, but need structure, are not yet ready to be their own critics. That said, one must be careful. The groups are only as good as the others in them, and some advice is just bad and wrong. Never get in a group in which you think you are the best writer in it. You will not learn anything. Try to be surrounded by writers who are better than you. (Not those who merely think they are better than you.) And beware of jealously, competition, power struggles that can occur even in groups in which there seems to be nothing to gain. Eventually, all writers must wean themselves from the groups, and this includes the academic workshops too. All writing is finally done alone in isolation and we are each our own best and final judge of our work. In the beginning, comments from smart people who are also writers and are struggling with the same things is very very helpful. but eventually the writer must learn to give himself that same advice and counsel, to be his own critic. Sometimes writers join writers’ groups for the social part, to know they are not alone, to alleviate the isolation. That is fine, I think. We all need groups now and then.
WTGR: Since this blog is
Writing the Good Read, please share what you're reading and recommend any books that might be useful to writers-in-development.
MT: I just finished Elizabeth Strout’s new novel—
Abide With Me. Very good. I already mentioned
Whiteman by Tony D’Souza, also extraordinary. I like anything by Lewis Nordan and John Dufresne and Susan Perabo and William Trevor. I just read the
Cottagers by Marshall Klimasewiski and liked it pretty well. I did not care for Anne Beattie’s new novel. One book I like for beginning writers is supposedly a textbook, but is so much more than that, is rather a wise and friendly way of looking at what makes a story or novel and it is
The Lie That Tells A Truth by John Dufresne. And I believe reading the literary journals is more helpful than you can imagine for new writers. It is important to see what is being published right now, to read people before they become famous.
